Roses series

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Origin helps that the two states have rugby league teams in them, whereas Lancashire has zero. That probably helps too. 

I'm from Leigh , officially Greater Manchester , I consider myself Lancastrian 

So Old Trafford. Cricket ground , home of Lancashire County Cricket isn't in Lancashire 

Edited April 23, 2023 by GUBRATS

[Madrileño]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm from Leigh , officially Greater Manchester , I consider myself Lancastrian 

How old are you, as a matter of interest?

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, Madrileño said:

How old are you, as a matter of interest?

I'm 62 

Is Old Trafford cricket ground in Lancashire ? 

[gingerjon]

21 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm 62 

Is Old Trafford cricket ground in Lancashire ? 

You can do a little experiment about how many grounds are actually in the county specifically named in the club name. Sussex play in unitary council area of Brighton & Hove and Surrey in the London Borough of Lambeth within the Greater London Authority area for example.

Lancashire obviously means something but, genuinely, how excited would you personally be by a mid-season match or series between Lancashire and Yorkshire in rugby league?

 

[lucky 7]

12 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Nice try pal but the link 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_State_of_Origin_game

Has....

"the second game at Leichhardt Oval in Sydney (described by Qld Halfback Wally Lewis as being played on a Tuesday night in front of two men and their dog, with the dog going home at half-time. The official paid attendance was just 1,368"

Last time I checked 1368 was less than 2000

Nice try, but no cigar

Very selective of you to ignore the attendance for the first game.

[Barley Mow]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You can do a little experiment about how many grounds are actually in the county specifically named in the club name. Sussex play in unitary council area of Brighton & Hove and Surrey in the London Borough of Lambeth within the Greater London Authority area for example.

 

They are all within the traditional/geographic counties that they relate to. Counties which pre-date local government.

Sport and other cultural institutions are typically organised on that basis - not just RL, but cricket, RU, the county FA's and others.

When we talk about Yorks and Lancs, people know we mean the traditional counties. Most general sports fans are familiar with this concept.

One of the reasons sports is organised on this basis is that local government boundaries tend to change every 20 years or so - as demonstrated by your examples.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Barley Mow said:

They are all within the traditional/geographic counties that they relate to. Counties which pre-date local government.

Sport and other cultural institutions are typically organised on that basis - not just RL, but cricket, RU, the county FA's and others.

When we talk about Yorks and Lancs, people know we mean the traditional counties. Most general sports fans are familiar with this concept.

One of the reasons sports is organised on this basis is that local government boundaries tend to change every 20 years or so - as demonstrated by your examples.

Interestingly (he says) the county leagues (not FAs) are all basically being shoved about so they don't reflect county boundaries any longer so teams can be moved to the most appropriate ones over time. The Sussex County Football League has become the Southern Combination Football League (keeping SCFL) and the Kent League is now the Southern Counties East League.

My key question remains: how excited would you be for a mid-season match or series between Yorkshire and Lancashire?

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Interestingly (he says) the county leagues (not FAs) are all basically being shoved about so they don't reflect county boundaries any longer so teams can be moved to the most appropriate ones over time. The Sussex County Football League has become the Southern Combination Football League (keeping SCFL) and the Kent League is now the Southern Counties East League.

My key question remains: how excited would you be for a mid-season match or series between Yorkshire and Lancashire?

Personally I'd love it and would be there in a shot.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

Personally I'd love it and would be there in a shot.

And are you older or younger than Gubby's 62?

I'm not against the idea of a Roses match or even a county/regional championship but I don't see what's in place that makes it more likely to be a success this time than previously. It has been tried nudging a hundred times already after all.

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And are you older or younger than Gubby's 62?

I'm not against the idea of a Roses match or even a county/regional championship but I don't see what's in place that makes it more likely to be a success this time than previously. It has been tried nudging a hundred times already after all.

I'm early 40s.

I'm pretty sure if we had another half hearted attempt it would be no better than last time.

I'd like to hope that if it was done right in terms of player availability, promotion, etc it could be successful. But that could be my own bias towards the concept.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I'm early 40s.

I'm pretty sure if we had another half hearted attempt it would be no better than last time.

I'd like to hope that if it was done right in terms of player availability, promotion, etc it could be successful. But that could be my own bias towards the concept.

I think after this year's half-hearted internationals we may well see an unavoidable clamour to give a representative series another go. If we do, I hope we go do down the County Championship route - include Cumbria-land for example - to give it a bit of a less parochial and predictable feel.

[RP London]

if and it is a massive IF there was interest in this I'd love it.... I think it could be a great advert that although parochial also has the history of the sport ingrained in it. I can see a full country getting interested in time because of the history etc.. its not just made up (although Lancashire would be a bit).. BUT i just dont see that early interest that it would need to really push it forward. Adding cumbria in could be interesting but again would there be the interest to really get people through the gate, I'm just not sure and I dont see what else we have that could do it. 

I'd love to be wrong mind.

I still like the idea of looking down the list of protagonists and linking where people were born with who sided with who in the wars. Would include allowing some French and Welsh to be involved in the Yorkshire or Lancashire teams too.. Anyone from Warwickshire can chose and change even during the series of course (if you know you know).. Play for the Tudor Trophy..

but again, not sure anyone is massivly getting behind it.

Edited April 24, 2023 by RP London

[tim2]

On 23/04/2023 at 10:03, corvusxiii said:

I'm not sure why the WotR matches are so derided. I used to like them.

If they'd been popular, they wouldn't have been scrapped.

[DI Keith Fowler]

15 minutes ago, tim2 said:

If they'd been popular, they wouldn't have been scrapped.

I don't know if that necessarily stands to reason. We've had internationals with England that haven't been popular but most think if the effort was put in we'd see better results. Something failing because we did it half-heartedly doesn't render it a bad idea.

I'm not wholly against the idea of a Lancashire, Yorkshire and Cumbria series as a mid-season mini tournament after a May CC final. You could run the academy tournament in parallel and have London in there as a region with a view to building them up to play in the senior competition. If you wanted to go wild you could count Occitania as a region and effectively have the French national side in contention. 

But as always it will come down to how much money, time and consistency we put into such things, no doubt if we do it we'll do it once and when it's not getting 30k through the gate in year 1 declare it a failure and move onto the next thing. 

[Futtocks]

4 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

Nice try, but no cigar

Very selective of you to ignore the attendance for the first game.

Both game 1 and game 2 in 1980 were under the old interstate selection rules - the very problem of an uneven advantage to NSW that Origin was created to fix.

Only the third match that year was an Origin match (attendance 33,210).

[Saint Toppy]

On 23/04/2023 at 11:55, Chrispmartha said:

I get the impression that being from Lancashire just isn’t as tribal as Yorkshire?

how often do you hear ‘lancashire’ being shouted at games? ‘Yorkshire’ gets chanted all the time.

Probably because for anyone born after 1974 none of the top teams are actually in Lancashire anymore so a large number of the supporters just don't associate themselves with Lancashire.

Saints comes under Merseyside, Wire under Cheshire, Wigan, Leigh & Salford under Greater Manchester

[glossop saint]

1 hour ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I don't know if that necessarily stands to reason. We've had internationals with England that haven't been popular but most think if the effort was put in we'd see better results. Something failing because we did it half-heartedly doesn't render it a bad idea.

I'm not wholly against the idea of a Lancashire, Yorkshire and Cumbria series as a mid-season mini tournament after a May CC final. You could run the academy tournament in parallel and have London in there as a region with a view to building them up to play in the senior competition. If you wanted to go wild you could count Occitania as a region and effectively have the French national side in contention. 

But as always it will come down to how much money, time and consistency we put into such things, no doubt if we do it we'll do it once and when it's not getting 30k through the gate in year 1 declare it a failure and move onto the next thing. 

I like the idea of an academy/junior level region/county tournament. I would like to think that having places like London, Wales, regions of France playing could give some of their promising players more exposure and a chance of a place at a more established club.

I don't think that there is enough interest in any county (with the possible but I still think unlikely exception of Yorkshire) at senior level to make it financially viable. And that is before you consider other reasons not to do it.

[David Shepherd]

On 23/04/2023 at 11:55, Chrispmartha said:

I get the impression that being from Lancashire just isn’t as tribal as Yorkshire?

 

how often do you hear ‘lancashire’ being shouted at games? ‘Yorkshire’ gets chanted all the time.

If you were from Lancashire, would you shout about it?

Also, Lancashire has been butchered and is a shadow of it's former self. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by David Shepherd

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Probably because for anyone born after 1974 none of the top teams are actually in Lancashire anymore so a large number of the supporters just don't associate themselves with Lancashire.

Saints comes under Merseyside, Wire under Cheshire, Wigan, Leigh & Salford under Greater Manchester

Can we have Yorkshire vs the rest and when we win can just show that we are the greatest as even combined counties cant beat the might of white! (rose that is... could sound very bad otherwise!)

[Sports Prophet]

It has been mentioned before, but, there currently is not the same precursor for a WotR fixture to immediately succeed in the same way as Origin did.

All rivalries are manufactured in one way or another. Some are more natural than others. Lancs v Yorks is in the fortunate position it probably needs less manufacturing than most.

A good way to rework the rivalry would be WotR played at every age group from U/12s to 18s. Players, parents and amateur clubs would then likely have a more personal stake or investment in the concept, before the main event being the best of the English in SL hit it out.

What I know is, there isn’t any competitive national sides in the NH to really challenge England. The people who say the WotR has already been tried, are often the same ones instead looking to push the similarly tried and unsuccessful internationals against France.

The likes of France, Wales, Ireland and Scotland would all be better off playing each other whilst the RFL find an alternative, high stakes game the fans buy into.

I think WotR can work and work much better than Exiles. The rivalry just needs more fuel to it.

[Madrileño]

6 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm 62 

Is Old Trafford cricket ground in Lancashire ? 

Thanks.

Old Trafford? Of course not.

I think it is more normal that you consider yourself "Lancastrian" due to when you were born.

How many of the current players would consider themselves "Lancastrian"? I would say very close to zero.

With all due respect, 62 year olds are not the demographic that the sport should be creating events for specifically.  They have your pound already... but the sport will go nowhere other than obscurity if the only people watching are 62 year olds. 

Which kids these days are going to grow up aspiring to play for "Lancashire"... a place they have never heard of? 

 

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Probably because for anyone born after 1974 none of the top teams are actually in Lancashire anymore so a large number of the supporters just don't associate themselves with Lancashire.

Saints comes under Merseyside, Wire under Cheshire, Wigan, Leigh & Salford under Greater Manchester

Who would have the strongest side out of Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Cheshire, West Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, Cumbria and London?

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

If you were from Lancashire, would you shout about it?

Also, Lancashire has been butchered and is a shadow of it's former self. 

What’s happened is Lancashire’s main cities have grown into places of international fame and glory while you lot have been going down big hills in shopping trolleys in Holmfirth ‘Last of the Summer Wine style’! 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Gerrumonside ref

[GUBRATS]

10 hours ago, gingerjon said:

You can do a little experiment about how many grounds are actually in the county specifically named in the club name. Sussex play in unitary council area of Brighton & Hove and Surrey in the London Borough of Lambeth within the Greater London Authority area for example.

Lancashire obviously means something but, genuinely, how excited would you personally be by a mid-season match or series between Lancashire and Yorkshire in rugby league?

 

Care nothing about Sussex or Surrey cricket or where they play , I still put my address as Leigh Lancashire 

Not much , there's no P and R at stake 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Thanks.

Old Trafford? Of course not.

I think it is more normal that you consider yourself "Lancastrian" due to when you were born.

How many of the current players would consider themselves "Lancastrian"? I would say very close to zero.

With all due respect, 62 year olds are not the demographic that the sport should be creating events for specifically.  They have your pound already... but the sport will go nowhere other than obscurity if the only people watching are 62 year olds. 

Which kids these days are going to grow up aspiring to play for "Lancashire"... a place they have never heard of? 

 

Clueless