League 1 unsustainable?

[wiganermike]

2 hours ago, Bearman said:

 

Coventry had actually won the old League 3 (2004) and was competing in the NCL when the new League 1 was formulated. Yet their application to join the new League was rejected in favour of Oxford who had no pedigree!

When they were admitted into the league they had to sign a £100,000 bond. Hemel had signed the bond but neither Oxford or GAG did not have to sign. Had they signed they would have had to pay the bond in full.

The £100,000 bond was the main reason that stopped Manchester from applying

I thought it was the Northampton club that got admitted but never ended up happening that got the nod over Coventry. Was that not the case?

[JM2010]

Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Cardiff, Bristol, Oxford, Northampton, Hemel, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Manchester, Chester, Liverpool, Teeside, Edinburgh. 
Wish there was money available to bring back the Summer Conference. 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Cardiff, Bristol, Oxford, Northampton, Hemel, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Manchester, Chester, Liverpool, Teeside, Edinburgh. 
Wish there was money available to bring back the Summer Conference. 

The old summer conference only worked due to winter players & ru players wanting something to do in their off seasons. The investment needs to be with juniors and schools over a long period of time

[Bearman]

1 hour ago, wiganermike said:

I thought it was the Northampton club that got admitted but never ended up happening that got the nod over Coventry. Was that not the case?

Northampton failed to light and Oxford got their place!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, wiganermike said:

I thought it was the Northampton club that got admitted but never ended up happening that got the nod over Coventry. Was that not the case?

Yep I was nearly involved in the Northampton one.....was the Rebels or something 

[gingerjon]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The old summer conference only worked due to winter players & ru players wanting something to do in their off seasons. The investment needs to be with juniors and schools over a long period of time

But there were extended seasons happening and clubs really starting to develop.

And then the rug was pulled from under them.

[Spidey]

13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

But there were extended seasons happening and clubs really starting to develop.

And then the rug was pulled from under them.

Yeah. I think there were genuine contenders in the list. But there were a lot of clubs that were just filler also. The likes of Crewe at the time were just locations for Warrington & Widnes players to have a run about in the Summer - didn’t offer any development 

[JM2010]

35 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Yeah. I think there were genuine contenders in the list. But there were a lot of clubs that were just filler also. The likes of Crewe at the time were just locations for Warrington & Widnes players to have a run about in the Summer - didn’t offer any development 

The Summer conference is the starting point. Start a few regional conferences and then add teams and build from there. 
The key would be investment in the local junior scene below that. If there was a 6 team regional conference in a certain area then each city with a team in the conference could be encouraged to get into schools and help set up junior clubs. 
As I said it would cost money which unfortunately the RFL don’t have 

[The Future is League]

I don't see any clubs queueing up to join League 1, and why would they.

Why would any club even apply to join League 1 from this mythical place called the heartlands after the way the Manchester Rangers were treated, even if Manchester isn't counted as the heartlands, but is very near by. 

Why would any ambitious French team join want to join when they would be expected to pay the expenses of any visiting teams, and who knows what restrictions the RFL would put on any new clubs from the Midlands and the South, probably some sort of bond out of any clubs reach

The fact of the matter is that the RFL haven't a clue what to do about League 1

[Gomersall]

14 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I don't see any clubs queueing up to join League 1, and why would they.

Why would any club even apply to join League 1 from this mythical place called the heartlands after the way the Manchester Rangers were treated, even if Manchester isn't counted as the heartlands, but is very near by. 

Why would any ambitious French team join want to join when they would be expected to pay the expenses of any visiting teams, and who knows what restrictions the RFL would put on any new clubs from the Midlands and the South, probably some sort of bond out of any clubs reach

The fact of the matter is that the RFL haven't a clue what to do about League 1

They don’t have a clue what to do about any clubs outside of the ‘heartlands’. Either financially or advice wise. 

[idrewthehaggis]

On 30/08/2023 at 11:24, Barley Mow said:

It may not come as a surprise to people on here, but where is the forward planning/strategic thinking? Even some medium term planning?

I guess any forward planning amounts to being contracted out to IMG or considering what to do with the future resignation lump sum.

[EssexRL]

On 02/09/2023 at 10:29, Gomersall said:

They don’t have a clue what to do about any clubs outside of the ‘heartlands’. Either financially or advice wise. 

I am sure you are right and a big problem with this is that it will put off any potential investor in L1 clubs.

If there was a strategy, then actually L1 could be attractive to someone interested in getting into the game financially but there isn't. We can't even be sure of the league's future. Why, then, would any one invest in it? Of course, this becomes a vicious cycle: no one invests because there is no meaningful support for L1, the lack of support justifies dumpling the league*.

*I am not suggesting the RFL are smart enough to create such a Machiavellian plan.

Edited September 5, 2023 by EssexRL

[The Future is League]

I think the RFL showed their true feelings about league 1 when they didn't let Manchester Rangers join league 1 and no West Wales this season and possibly no London Skolars next season, and the RFL seem to me they are quite happy to let teams wither on the vine in league 1 and then die off.

[EssexRL]

25 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I think the RFL showed their true feelings about league 1 when they didn't let Manchester Rangers join league 1 and no West Wales this season and possibly no London Skolars next season, and the RFL seem to me they are quite happy to let teams wither on the vine in league 1 and then die off.

A sobering thought and not implausible. I have to say I do wonder if my club will be around next season at least as a semi-pro one. RL will become more entrenched in the 'heartland' which is really only a handful of towns and cities in the north. If it was big across the region and in all the urban centres then that would be something but it isn't. When I go to somewhere like Darlington (where my partner is from), the profile of the game is about as high as it is in Dulwich!

None of this bodes well for the future of the game. (In London that future feels like a few amateur clubs dotted around the capital and, maybe, Broncos).

Edited September 5, 2023 by EssexRL

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

For me part of the issue with League 1 is that there isn't any obvious route in to it. As much as some within the game bang on about the importance of P&R, there is no obvious way that a team can enter League 1, and consequently climb the ladder to Super League. In football and rugby union. it's theoretically possible to start at the bottom of the pyramid and gradually work your way up to the top. In RL, the whole structure is such a confusing mess, that there is no clear path to the top. I realise by writing this that some people will jump on it and say that no community clubs want to enter League 1, but IMO that just supports the argument - i.e. there's no reason why anybody would want to invest in a community club if their particular ambitions involved playing in the pro leagues, because there's no available route from community game to pro game. IMO solving the conundrum of League 1 involves sorting the entire structure of the game. Otherwise we may as well get shot of it and just have a semi pro championship and fully pro Super League. Just stick all the semi pro teams in the Champ and don't play everyone home and away.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

the whole game needs restructured and I include the NCL and Regional leagues in that statement. 

Some of the regional leagues would be in good shape if their NCL clubs were still with them.

Before the usual NCL fan club starts, I would like to see the community game restructured so there is still a national element for the top 1 or 2 divisions, but below that have a new more localised structure and absorb all the community leagues into one pyramid system to create competitive leagues with a clear pathway for those that want to progress.

Some might say we have that at present - I would disagree, but that is obviously my own opinion,  

If the structure was in place with a properly thought out development pathway with involvement from the community clubs, then surely Sport England could be persuaded to back it with funding.

 

 

[Bearman]

When will people get into their heads that the RFL did not stop Manchester from applying. The process was there and was open to anyone.

Part of that process was to be able to show that applicants were financially sound and there was a £100,000 bond to guarantee that fixtures would be fulfilled. The RFL argued that if applicants had no  penalty what was there to stop them defaulting on fixtures which throw the league into disrepute.

All talk of regional leagues must be tempered with the ciost of travel AND the willingness of players to actually travel. Increasingly that is a major factor. 

[EggFace]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I think the RFL showed their true feelings about league 1 when they didn't let Manchester Rangers join league 1 and no West Wales this season and possibly no London Skolars next season, and the RFL seem to me they are quite happy to let teams wither on the vine in league 1 and then die off.

RFL sound a lot like the RFU.

[Griff]

48 minutes ago, Bearman said:

 

All talk of regional leagues must be tempered with the cost of travel AND the willingness of players to actually travel. Increasingly that is a major factor. 

 

There we have a significant issue.  The financial burden of the geographical spread of the game largely falls on the clubs least able to afford it.

[OriginalMrC]

This thread and similar ones go round and round with the same comments, arguments, thoughts and ideas.

Manchester Rangers always gets a mention (no they werent stopped from applying) 

Regional leagues always gets a mention

League 1 supposedly being a development league always gets a mention 

Promotion of amateur teams into league 1 always gets a mention 

All great but the main thing that's doomed league 1 is lack of funding. This has happened due to a number of reasons but the split of Superleague from the RFL accelerated that process 

[Damien]

On 05/09/2023 at 17:19, Bearman said:

When will people get into their heads that the RFL did not stop Manchester from applying. The process was there and was open to anyone.

Part of that process was to be able to show that applicants were financially sound and there was a £100,000 bond to guarantee that fixtures would be fulfilled. The RFL argued that if applicants had no  penalty what was there to stop them defaulting on fixtures which throw the league into disrepute.

All talk of regional leagues must be tempered with the ciost of travel AND the willingness of players to actually travel. Increasingly that is a major factor. 

They didn't stop Manchester from applying but they certainly did put obstacles in their way:

The Rangers board have met with resistance over the past few years that have blocked their attempts to bring professional rugby league to the centre of the city.

They were told their best route in would be to either merge or takeover one of the existing Greater Manchester clubs, such as Oldham or Swinton.

Understandably not keen to go down that road, Rangers instead made an offer to take over the Hemel licence but were knocked back due to the presence of the other clubs around them.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/manchester-rangers-withdraw-team-after-league-one-snub

Edited September 8, 2023 by Damien
typo

[DEANO]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I think the RFL showed their true feelings about league 1 when they didn't let Manchester Rangers join league 1 and no West Wales this season and possibly no London Skolars next season, and the RFL seem to me they are quite happy to let teams wither on the vine in league 1 and then die off.

All part of the master plan I’m afraid

[Anita Bath]

7 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

For me part of the issue with League 1 is that there isn't any obvious route in to it. As much as some within the game bang on about the importance of P&R, there is no obvious way that a team can enter League 1, and consequently climb the ladder to Super League. In football and rugby union. it's theoretically possible to start at the bottom of the pyramid and gradually work your way up to the top. In RL, the whole structure is such a confusing mess, that there is no clear path to the top. I realise by writing this that some people will jump on it and say that no community clubs want to enter League 1, but IMO that just supports the argument - i.e. there's no reason why anybody would want to invest in a community club if their particular ambitions involved playing in the pro leagues, because there's no available route from community game to pro game. IMO solving the conundrum of League 1 involves sorting the entire structure of the game. Otherwise we may as well get shot of it and just have a semi pro championship and fully pro Super League. Just stick all the semi pro teams in the Champ and don't play everyone home and away.

Rochdale Hornets found a route into it….their problem is finding a route out!

[audois]

On 01/09/2023 at 15:44, JM2010 said:

Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Cardiff, Bristol, Oxford, Northampton, Hemel, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Manchester, Chester, Liverpool, Teeside, Edinburgh. 
Wish there was money available to bring back the Summer Conference. 

You forgot Glouceter my team!

[JM2010]

15 minutes ago, audois said:

You forgot Glouceter my team!

Sorry!! Gloucester too