Oldham..,

[north yorks trinity]

3 hours ago, JM2010 said:

That goes back to the idea of a SL 1 and SL 2 with p and r between them. Could still have minimum criteria for teams to get into SL 2

Not necessarily. Accept it's simply the second tier however you want to brand it, but work on increasing the value, promotion of, and interest in that second tier both as a goal in itself and for the good of the greater game. 

It's not the easiest task to promote any second tier these days but it would be a heck of a lot easier if the will was clearly there and some serious actual effort was made.

[glossop saint]

6 minutes ago, north yorks trinity said:

Not necessarily. Accept it's simply the second tier however you want to brand it, but work on increasing the value, promotion of, and interest in that second tier both as a goal in itself and for the good of the greater game. 

It's not the easiest task to promote any second tier these days but it would be a heck of a lot easier if the will was clearly there and some serious actual effort was made.

How would you suggest increasing the value/ promotion of the second tier? How much of an investment/risk would you take to do it? How long would you stick with it for? What returns would you expect to see and what would make it worthwhile? Is there a model from a different sport for promoting their second tier competition that you would follow? 

[sheddingswasus]

The problem in RL is everything is short termism. Nothing ever gets chance to develop. Going back to Oldham though, their plan is long term. They have built a strong back room term and that is the foundation to all their planning. 

[johnh1]

Well done Oldham. Hope you can make a big impression on the Championship next year.

[shrewsbury roughyed]

6 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

I'm pleased to see Oldham back and moving in the right direction. I traveled up with Coventry Bears a couple of times snd it genuinely shocked me where they were playing before. An absolutely horrible ground where no one should have to watch RL. Despite that there was one thing that shone through. The quality of the fans there. At that time small in number but loved their club and were passionate but friendly. I'm glad those people are getting rewarded now for hanging on in there.

Love this post. Always had a great welcome at Midlands. Thank you. And all the best to you and yours.

[dkw]

Congratulations to Oldham, be interesting to see the squad for next season. Good luck, great seeing a club rise from such depths.

Edited August 19, 2024 by dkw

[Snowys Backside]

Made up for Oldham. 
 

Great base and great hotbed for RL. 
 

Can see them being a top 4 Champ side within a couple of years

[Trojan Horse]

4 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Other that the money the owners of these clubs have spent on them, what "investment" has been put into Toulouse and London and by whom?

Exactly the same investment of every other club. Equally nothing. 
 

Though I do believe they receive a leg up head start on the img criteria through location which is sensually a head start on many other clubs. You could argue this is an investment into expansion. Unfair perhaps on many teams, personally this should be abolished as you can’t really move a clubs stadium and location so I’m surprised points are allocated or penalised accordingly. 
 

I personally think the the championship and league 1 can be so much more and I think there’s teams who have a much higher ceiling for potential that aren’t what you would call expansion clubs. 
 

To link this with Oldham. These are a club building in the right way and are actually in a better state than London it seems presently. In contrast London floundering and crying with pity articles and press releases whilst a club like Oldham are really buying into improving themselves. 
 

Clubs like Oldham, York etc listed I really do think could improve a lot over this next few years but I do think the structure and investment into the championship needs a serious look to enable that. 

Edited August 19, 2024 by Trojan Horse

[Trojan Horse]

43 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Made up for Oldham. 
 

Great base and great hotbed for RL. 
 

Can see them being a top 4 Champ side within a couple of years

I’ll take a look at their squad for 2025. Might be a good dark horse bet for top spot odds wise. 

[Just Browny]

26 minutes ago, Trojan Horse said:

Exactly the same investment of every other club. Equally nothing. 
 

Though I do believe they receive a leg up head start on the img criteria through location which is sensually a head start on many other clubs. You could argue this is an investment into expansion. Unfair perhaps on many teams, personally this should be abolished as you can’t really move a clubs stadium and location so I’m surprised points are allocated or penalised accordingly. 
 

I personally think the the championship and league 1 can be so much more and I think there’s teams who have a much higher ceiling for potential that aren’t what you would call expansion clubs. 
 

To link this with Oldham. These are a club building in the right way and are actually in a better state than London it seems presently. In contrast London floundering and crying with pity articles and press releases whilst a club like Oldham are really buying into improving themselves. 
 

Clubs like Oldham, York etc listed I really do think could improve a lot over this next few years but I do think the structure and investment into the championship needs a serious look to enable that. 

So the 'investment' you were railing against amounts to a quarter of an IMG point or whatever; I.e. not even enough to get these clubs into SL under the criteria?

Well at least we cleared that up.

Well done to Oldham, extremely pleasing to see them on the up at last. They have been a basket case for the whole time I have been watching RL (30+ years) so really pleased not only for the current set-up, but also those who have kept at it for all those years.

[OriginalMrC]

48 minutes ago, Trojan Horse said:

Exactly the same investment of every other club. Equally nothing. 
 

Though I do believe they receive a leg up head start on the img criteria through location which is sensually a head start on many other clubs. You could argue this is an investment into expansion. Unfair perhaps on many teams, personally this should be abolished as you can’t really move a clubs stadium and location so I’m surprised points are allocated or penalised accordingly. 
 

I personally think the the championship and league 1 can be so much more and I think there’s teams who have a much higher ceiling for potential that aren’t what you would call expansion clubs. 
 

To link this with Oldham. These are a club building in the right way and are actually in a better state than London it seems presently. In contrast London floundering and crying with pity articles and press releases whilst a club like Oldham are really buying into improving themselves. 
 

Clubs like Oldham, York etc listed I really do think could improve a lot over this next few years but I do think the structure and investment into the championship needs a serious look to enable that. 

Why can't you just say well done to Oldham without having a dig at London and expansion in general?

[Trojan Horse]

12 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Why can't you just say well done to Oldham without having a dig at London and expansion in general?

Because I can do both and don’t need to conform to what you want me to do. 
 

Not having a dig at all. I just think there’s more future potential in other clubs Oldham inclusive. 

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, glossop saint said:

How would you suggest increasing the value/ promotion of the second tier? How much of an investment/risk would you take to do it? How long would you stick with it for? What returns would you expect to see and what would make it worthwhile? Is there a model from a different sport for promoting their second tier competition that you would follow? 

Start by feeding the media with stories given that most media outlets don't have dedicated RL journalists. If that's too much for the RFL's horribly limited budget, just ensure that basic information gets where it's needed. For example Wakey played Sheffield a week last Friday and the following day the Yorkshire Post didn't even have the result. Not so long ago they'd carry a report of all Yorkshire's semi pro teams. 

[sheddingswasus]

Oldhams media team is amazing. They have multiple posts everyday on Facebook, Instagram , TikTok, Twitter and YouTube. For anyone interested every match is shown in full two days after the game, player interviews and features. There is a weekly series of a magazine programme called the “Boundary Line”. Really they put most clubs in SL to shame. 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

Widnes played them a couple of times at Stalybridge in the not to distant past and they must have been down to a couple of hundred proper diehards.  It's good to see how they've bounced back.

[Snowys Backside]

2 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Widnes played them a couple of times at Stalybridge in the not to distant past and they must have been down to a couple of hundred proper diehards.  It's good to see how they've bounced back.

If IMG have any sense of growing the game, SL should be a 16 team comp with a straight 30 game League and top 8.

If Oldham, Widnes, Bradford and Wakey (as an example) can get the funding and infrastructure in place, that is potentially 30k new fans per week watching SL week in and week out and the interest firmly back in place at grass roots level. Big RL Towns and Cities with great History.

The big boys may no longer be able to cherry pick the youngsters due to the local teams being with the big boys and within a decade, things could level out.

Notice I have not mentioned Toulouse. Before the expansionists have a pop, we Have Catalans which for me is enough. London needs tapping into but how can you get interest when your relegated before you have started ?

Promote 2 next season and promote 1 more over the next 2 years. If Toulouse deserve it on merit, then fair play.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Back to the discussion about Oldham.

All I know about the resurgence at Oldham is what I read on this and other RL sites.

So do posters think that the IMG process will offer the club a far better chance - with the move to Boundary Park and sensible planning - in the next 5 years or so to achieve the 15 point mark to achieve Grade A status.  Or, would they have had a better chance if P&R had been retained?

[Yorky]

11 hours ago, sheddingswasus said:

Oldhams media team is amazing. They have multiple posts everyday on Facebook, Instagram , TikTok, Twitter and YouTube. For anyone interested every match is shown in full two days after the game, player interviews and features. There is a weekly series of a magazine programme called the “Boundary Line”. Really they put most clubs in SL to shame. 

100%. I decided to start following a few random championship/league 1 clubs on social media this year, out of support for getting them a few extra likes and follows for img scoring (every little helps!), but also just to keep an eye on results/news etc.

From the 5 or 6 teams I follow Oldham stands out for the quality and frequency of content. Regular updates about team news, fan support and upcoming games as well as post game highlights ans interviews. Lots of positive messages and it really encourages you to get down to Boundary park and watch a game.

Will be very interesting to see how they get on in the championship next season, this club really looks to be going places

 

 

 

[Whippet13]

6 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

If IMG have any sense of growing the game, SL should be a 16 team comp with a straight 30 game League and top 8.

If Oldham, Widnes, Bradford and Wakey (as an example) can get the funding and infrastructure in place, that is potentially 30k new fans per week watching SL week in and week out and the interest firmly back in place at grass roots level. Big RL Towns and Cities with great History.

The big boys may no longer be able to cherry pick the youngsters due to the local teams being with the big boys and within a decade, things could level out.

Notice I have not mentioned Toulouse. Before the expansionists have a pop, we Have Catalans which for me is enough. London needs tapping into but how can you get interest when your relegated before you have started ?

Promote 2 next season and promote 1 more over the next 2 years. If Toulouse deserve it on merit, then fair play.

People seem to think IMG have some sort of control over the game and decide what happens. They don't, IMG make recommendations which the clubs vote on.

4 more "traditional" SL teams will mean 2 additional games pulling in an average 5-6k fans pw, so c12k and not 30k - although I think that is fine.

The most immediate problem with going to 16 will be persuading the 12 existing clubs to take a 33% cut in their share of central funding, how do you propose doing that?

[Roughyed Rats]

2 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Back to the discussion about Oldham.

All I know about the resurgence at Oldham is what I read on this and other RL sites.

So do posters think that the IMG process will offer the club a far better chance - with the move to Boundary Park and sensible planning - in the next 5 years or so to achieve the 15 point mark to achieve Grade A status.  Or, would they have had a better chance if P&R had been retained?

The board have been very clear that their plan was in place well before IMG. It’s had no impact whatsoever on the work they’ve done; much of which is community engagement and other long term investment not even measured by IMG. As 60% of the IMG measures are averaged over 3 years, the new owners will have to live with the legacy of the previous owner’s managed decline for at least another 2 years. Therefore, P&R would have provided a better chance.

[ATLANTISMAN]

7 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

If IMG have any sense of growing the game, SL should be a 16 team comp with a straight 30 game League and top 8.

If Oldham, Widnes, Bradford and Wakey (as an example) can get the funding and infrastructure in place, that is potentially 30k new fans per week watching SL week in and week out and the interest firmly back in place at grass roots level. Big RL Towns and Cities with great History.

The big boys may no longer be able to cherry pick the youngsters due to the local teams being with the big boys and within a decade, things could level out.

Notice I have not mentioned Toulouse. Before the expansionists have a pop, we Have Catalans which for me is enough. London needs tapping into but how can you get interest when your relegated before you have started ?

Promote 2 next season and promote 1 more over the next 2 years. If Toulouse deserve it on merit, then fair play.

A lot of common sense there personally with France just my opinion Carcassonne would be better.

London very very important  

[Adelaide Tiger]

1 hour ago, Roughyed Rats said:

The board have been very clear that their plan was in place well before IMG. It’s had no impact whatsoever on the work they’ve done; much of which is community engagement and other long term investment not even measured by IMG. As 60% of the IMG measures are averaged over 3 years, the new owners will have to live with the legacy of the previous owner’s managed decline for at least another 2 years. Therefore, P&R would have provided a better chance.

Thanks RR for the reply.  I was aware that the Boards plan was pre IMG.  My comment was based on whether people think that the potential position that Oldham may be in in 5 years time - which obviously would negate the two years to date - may get them near the 15 point mark.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Roughyed Rats said:

The board have been very clear that their plan was in place well before IMG. It’s had no impact whatsoever on the work they’ve done; much of which is community engagement and other long term investment not even measured by IMG. As 60% of the IMG measures are averaged over 3 years, the new owners will have to live with the legacy of the previous owner’s managed decline for at least another 2 years. Therefore, P&R would have provided a better chance.

With the greatest respect, I don't think 2 successive promotions would have been realistic. I think consolidation and then to be in the mix the year after would have been more realistic. It's great to see Oldham on the up though. Hopefully they continue on this trajectory.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

7 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Thanks RR for the reply.  I was aware that the Boards plan was pre IMG.  My comment was based on whether people think that the potential position that Oldham may be in in 5 years time - which obviously would negate the two years to date - may get them near the 15 point mark.

Mike Ford, on a recent TRL podcast, said that as far as the IMG rating is concerned we have the legacy of the previous regime. He said they've enquired as to whether Oldham could have an exemption and be rated from when the new board took over? I doubt that would happen as every club and his wife would be changing their board and asking for an exemption. Either that or furiously objecting.

[glossop saint]

13 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

Start by feeding the media with stories given that most media outlets don't have dedicated RL journalists. If that's too much for the RFL's horribly limited budget, just ensure that basic information gets where it's needed. For example Wakey played Sheffield a week last Friday and the following day the Yorkshire Post didn't even have the result. Not so long ago they'd carry a report of all Yorkshire's semi pro teams. 

Whilst I agree that scores should be appearing in local newspapers this really is schoolboy stuff, and as much blame should fall on the club as the RFL. In fact, writing pieces for local media outlets should be happening as has been discussed on the board before. However this still will cost money. How many new paying fans does that need to attract to make it worthwhile (not necessarily how it should be looked at in my opinion but how it will be looked at)? 

And this still doesn't answer the vast majority of my initial questions. A column in a newspaper won't be a game changer for a 2nd tier sports league.