What makes a good commentator?

[Dunbar]

I really liked Eddie Hemmings as a commentator.  I thought he had a style that was easy to listen to and you got the feeling that he was a genuine fan of the game and therefore he was sharing his passion for and excitement of the game rather than trying to generate it artificially.  I think that is really obvious in the very best commentators.

I was however (and still am) critical of the Eddie and Stevo double act as they very quickly descended into a parody of themselves and Stevo was very difficult to listen to... probably more so in the studio pieces were he just ramblesld, but in commentary as well.

[Derwent]

Two commentators that really showed their passion for their sports were Sid Waddell (Darts) and Harry Carpenter (Boxing). Waddell was absolutely superb at what he did. Another who’s voice perfectly suited his sport was “Whispering” Ted Lowe.

Of the current RL commentators I think Mark Wilson is the best by far, followed by Dave Woods. Stuart Pyke is ok but sounds like he’s got somebody else’s teeth in. Bill Arthur is just awful.

 

[DACS]

I thought Hemmings was pretty good early, but the comparison is really with BBC commentators, who were part and parcel of RL's flat cap and whippet image problem.

Ray French was awful. 'He's going for that line' and many other meaningless babblings, no real insight into what was going on, and an accent so thick you could cut it with a knife, which really didn't help move on from the Waring era. Waring was actually a smart man, but his commentary at the end of his career was virtually unintelligible. He was a paid clown on Its a Knockout for a reason - people thought he sounded comically ridiculous. 

By comparison Bill McLaren was exactly what RL lacked - capable of making the most awful game sound interesting and sounding intelligent and articulate.

As well as the lead commentator, having someone alongside who can really explain the details makes the game a much better watch. In Oz Gus Gould used to do that before he became a parody of himself, and Sterlo could as well. Andrew Johns was terrible to start with, but he explains details of plays very clearly, especially what halfbacks are doing and looking at during plays. Fittler has got a lot better (he was awful to start with) as well. Thurston is just a funny laugh though - he can't string two words together.  

[Amber Avenger]

Really interesting article and debate. 

I do think there is a fine balance behind how much colour a commentator can add to an event without detracting from it. You obviously need to be prepared, but you can't prepare exactly what to say - for example I'm not hugely keen on Sam Matterface, in the England's men football semi finals on ITV he clearly had lines written before hand for multiple eventualities to shoe horn in. You need to be genuine in broadcasting because otherwise the public tend to smell it.  I don't think RL tends to have that problem, even if there is some room for improvement.

I think if you look at good commentators, you look at moments that would have been huge anyway and look at how they deal with it. They Think It's All Over, Agüeroooooo, even our own Wide to West are last minute moments of sporting brilliance enhanced by deceptively simple, honest and reflective commentary.

I've frequently thought the other moment that probably should rival Wide to West in the SL era is the end of the 2020 GF. It really is our Agüero moment and watching it back in the cold light of day it doesn't have the same impact. Now to be fair a part of that is there being no crowd but I also think the commentary itself doesn't have a "wide to West" moment, and you can't manufacture that stuff 

[Oxford]

Before his decline, which the Beeb were happy to hide because RL wasn't imprtant enough, Eddie Waring was a great commentator.

It shows how much our tastes differ though I blame those commentators for me not getting to like cricket for years.

 

[Cw25]

4 hours ago, Expatknight said:

You probably have never heard or even heard of Andy Atkinson the BBC Radio York RL commentator but I doubt there are many much better, you feel like you are there when you listen to him and he has all the attributes already mentioned.

 

Agree 100%. He is the best. Seems a good bloke too. There are a few good ones on other local stations. Dan Payne and Jordan Weir, the other stand outs. 

[gingerjon]

53 minutes ago, Amber Avenger said:

Really interesting article and debate. 

I do think there is a fine balance behind how much colour a commentator can add to an event without detracting from it. You obviously need to be prepared, but you can't prepare exactly what to say - for example I'm not hugely keen on Sam Matterface, in the England's men football semi finals on ITV he clearly had lines written before hand for multiple eventualities to shoe horn in. You need to be genuine in broadcasting because otherwise the public tend to smell it.  I don't think RL tends to have that problem, even if there is some room for improvement.

I think if you look at good commentators, you look at moments that would have been huge anyway and look at how they deal with it. They Think It's All Over, Agüeroooooo, even our own Wide to West are last minute moments of sporting brilliance enhanced by deceptively simple, honest and reflective commentary.

I've frequently thought the other moment that probably should rival Wide to West in the SL era is the end of the 2020 GF. It really is our Agüero moment and watching it back in the cold light of day it doesn't have the same impact. Now to be fair a part of that is there being no crowd but I also think the commentary itself doesn't have a "wide to West" moment, and you can't manufacture that stuff 

"Wide to West" also builds in a way that the end to the 2020 GF just didn't, and probably couldn't. The way the voice rises and the excitement builds in WoW is testament to how good Hemmings was on his day.

[soulboy]

2 hours ago, DACS said:

I thought Hemmings was pretty good early, but the comparison is really with BBC commentators, who were part and parcel of RL's flat cap and whippet image problem.

Ray French was awful. 'He's going for that line' and many other meaningless babblings, no real insight into what was going on, and an accent so thick you could cut it with a knife, which really didn't help move on from the Waring era. Waring was actually a smart man, but his commentary at the end of his career was virtually unintelligible. He was a paid clown on Its a Knockout for a reason - people thought he sounded comically ridiculous. 

By comparison Bill McLaren was exactly what RL lacked - capable of making the most awful game sound interesting and sounding intelligent and articulate.

As well as the lead commentator, having someone alongside who can really explain the details makes the game a much better watch. In Oz Gus Gould used to do that before he became a parody of himself, and Sterlo could as well. Andrew Johns was terrible to start with, but he explains details of plays very clearly, especially what halfbacks are doing and looking at during plays. Fittler has got a lot better (he was awful to start with) as well. Thurston is just a funny laugh though - he can't string two words together.  

Totally agree about French . His dreadful sing song voice , getting the names of players mixed up, missing exciting passages of play .

And to add insult to injury, they had Murphy summarising , who was always on the verge of hysteria and again , rambling .

If you ever watch the Documentary about Waring , it deals with a man who was a visionary and ate and slept RL.

But at the end of the day , RL was dealing with the BBC whose contempt for RL ( even to this day )and it’s sneering agenda against RL  has always been visible .

One Aussie commentator I didn’t mind was Daryl ( he’s doing a bit of a boogie ) Eastlake . 

 

[Chrispmartha]

No Mick Morgan? Shocking!

RL, Hemmings was a fabulous commentator up until a few years before he left.

Ray Warren brilliant 

Vossy is easily the best of the current crop IMO, he captures the madness that RL can sometimes be snd knows when to inject humour.

[Futtocks]

Both Eddie Waring and Ray French were kept in the job well past their best, probably because it was easier than looking for new talent. And back then, the BBC weren't that interested in making any kind of effort for RL. In both cases, their latter years tarnish their overall reputation.

Bill McLaren was a bag of clichés, and the more you listened to him, the less you realised there was to his act. It pleased the easily pleased, so Rugby Union was a good match for him. When I was young, I thought he was funny, but I ended up despising his smug, repetitive blitherings.

There are times on a weekend morning when I don't want the TV screen on for the early match, so I stream the ABC Grandstand audio feed. Their main guy, Andrew Moore, does have a few catchphrases, but doesn't belabour them and the coverage flows nicely with him and Luke Lewis in the box.

In other sports, I always liked Hugh Porter's cycling commentary. Christine Still and the late Mitch Fenner were a brilliantly professional gymnastics commentary team, mixing enthusiasm with critical technical knowledge.

[Chris22]

A lot of it is about pitch and tone of voice to me. The ability to generate excitement without it sounding forced or that the commentator is shouting at the viewer. 

A good commentator is one that you don't notice all of the time. One who supplements the action rather than a wall of sound over the top of it.

TV Rugby League commentators have a habit of talking too much. Not every moment needs to be filled, knowing when not to say anything is important too.

[RigbyLuger]

13 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Both Eddie Waring and Ray French were kept in the job well past their best, probably because it was easier than looking for new talent. And back then, the BBC weren't that interested in making any kind of effort for RL. In both cases, their latter years tarnish their overall reputation.

Bill McLaren was a bag of clichés, and the more you listened to him, the less you realised there was to his act. It pleased the easily pleased, so Rugby Union was a good match for him. When I was young, I thought he was funny, but I ended up despising his smug, repetitive blitherings.

The daft thing about French being kept on top long is Dave Woods was there ready to take over for years.

On McLaren, completely agree. Mythologised as "the voice of rugby" because the BBC forget to add the word union after, as usual.

[DACS]

Ask any casual viewer what they thought of McLaren and you'll get an exact opposite view. I think he stayed too long, but you can rewatch matches now from the 80s and his commentary still sounds good.

Exact opposite with Ray French. Being kept on too long wasn't the problem - he was awful from the start. His commentary was cringeworthy and utterly lacking in insight right from the off, and combined with his thick accent helped reinforce the flat cap and whippet image of the game. Really ironic given his background in RU and as a schoolteacher at a posh school.

[graveyard johnny]

1 hour ago, DACS said:

Ask any casual viewer what they thought of McLaren and you'll get an exact opposite view. I think he stayed too long, but you can rewatch matches now from the 80s and his commentary still sounds good.

Exact opposite with Ray French. Being kept on too long wasn't the problem - he was awful from the start. His commentary was cringeworthy and utterly lacking in insight right from the off, and combined with his thick accent helped reinforce the flat cap and whippet image of the game. Really ironic given his background in RU and as a schoolteacher at a posh school.

all credit to sin tilins - its thuuur - but if he was around these days he would have to have a token female next to him making it even worse 

[jamescolin]

While a match is being played we should have commentary about the play. These days commentators are talking  about the past intems or parentage of players, past injuries, past teams, realted events and all the time the game is going on and moves are being made without comment. Concentrate on the game please. Garbling on is not giving us commentary in any shape or form.

[overtheborder]

For me personally, I don't mind too much about particular styles, voices etc., but I like to feel like I've learned something about what's going on on the field that I didn't know before.

I think cricket tends to have some great commentary in general, so for me if you want an example I'd point there, but I'm not sure if that's to do with the fact that they need to fill in quite a lot of time, as well as it being a slower game - that arguably lends itself to some decent analytical features in between play.

[idrewthehaggis]

The other code was lucky in previously having the likes of MacLaren, Eddie Butler and Cliff Morgan.

Lads whose luxurious, rich rhythms out weighted the sense of privilege and often dullarity attached to that sport. An era of embracing the tonality as much as the talk.

RL was unlucky in having end of the Blackpool pier showmanship in Eddie et al, evoking a sense less of remarkable voices and more a gaggle of Butch Dingles let loose to express their sharp eyed parochialism and random violence.

#### up or conspiracy, we seemed to lack, miss having our own well honed, knowledgeable voice who was a pleasure to listen to, irrespective of how compelling the game was or not.

I would argue that era is over. Instead it is either the perfectly acceptable office efficient voices like Dave Woods or bantz. Think Chris Sutton, Alan Brazil, David Flatman, Jon Wilkins. Often unnecessarily contradictory, sometimes mindless or trite. Always provoking. Which is the point.

For me RL is an honest, tough but hugely technical and skilful game and thus its commentary should reflect that. Certainly less the crushing "iron man" cargo cult which seems dated now. And more the adeptness and resilience. People who are approachable, smart, knowledgeable and able to use the definite article in a sentence would make the ideal commentator today. More Dave Woods then. 

 

[Big Picture]

18 hours ago, jamescolin said:

While a match is being played we should have commentary about the play. These days commentators are talking  about the past intems or parentage of players, past injuries, past teams, realted events and all the time the game is going on and moves are being made without comment. Concentrate on the game please. Garbling on is not giving us commentary in any shape or form.

Precisely.  In telecasts of North American only one voice is ever heard while play is under way, the play-by-play commentator's.  And he does only one thing: provide commentary about the play which the viewers can see.  His analyst/colour commentator sidekick is only ever heard during breaks in play, he makes his comments fit into those brief intervals.

I have yet to meet anyone over here who knows anything about English soccer commentary who doesn't think it's dreadful.

[Richard de la Riviere]

On 03/05/2023 at 12:04, Martyn Sadler said:

There are some great sporting events that stick in the memory, not just because of the action but also because of the commentary.

The so-called greatest try ever scored in rugby union falls into that category. Cliff Morgan was the commentator, but he only got the gig because Bill McLaren was ill. But his commentary on Gareth Edwards' try was the true gold standard.

"Gareth Edwards - what can touch a man like that?"

 

Tom David, who handles the ball halfway through this move, gets a mention in this week’s League Express! 

[Gooleboy]

For me, many great commentators in many sports, but Richie Benaud was the best.

[daz39]

One that doesn't treat the job like a chat with your mates in the pub while the game is on in the background, so none of the them at the moment.

Maybe we need to get it back to one commentator and one summariser.

[sentoffagain2]

On 05/05/2023 at 18:34, Richard de la Riviere said:

Tom David, who handles the ball halfway through this move, gets a mention in this week’s League Express! 

  Remember Tom and Steve Fenwick playing for Cardiff Blue Dragons at Tattersfield Doncaster.They were losing at half time and my daughter got both their autographs as they came off the field at half time.The coach was not impressed he gave them a verbal.However they did improve in the second half and went on to win the game.

[Bobby123]

On 03/05/2023 at 11:22, Martyn Sadler said:

I try to answer that question.

Someone who concentrates on the play and not what the players had for breccy or how many tries a person has scored for his last club.

[meast]

On 03/05/2023 at 11:31, DavidM said:

I always preferred Barry Davies to John Motson . Some fantastic goals come hand in hand with his commentary 

Both timeless and recognisable, but for me Davies edged it, some of his more famous commentary moments have become part of every day vocabulary for me and my circle, "look at his face" being the most popular.

[Harry Stottle]

On 03/05/2023 at 13:07, HawkMan said:

Commentators from the past for me the stand out ones are Brian Moore, Motty and Davies, Henry Blofeld,  Murray Walker, Dan Maskell.

Current; Voss, Johnathan Pierce,  Johnathan Agnew, Peter Drury and Mike Atherton.

Greatest Commentator Wind Up, Aggers doing Boycott.

 

 

None better than Johnners & Aggers, like this example

I heard this live on TMS driving up the M6, how I didn't crash I will never know tears were streaming down my cheeks and I could hardly see a thing. PURE GOLD.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Harry Stottle