World Cup venues announcement

[Dave T]

Wigan is clearly a glaring omission here. Out of SL, we have their rivals Leeds, Saints, Wire, Hull all given multiple games, plus Hudds getting a key game. The organisers seemed very happy to award to established RL clubs and football grounds in the heartlands. Instead of any kind of shocking decision, it suggests that the bid was shockingly bad.

[deluded pom?]

Was Wigan’s bid better than NSW’s 2017 effort?

[JonM]

4 hours ago, AB Knight said:

A bit disappointed York haven't been selected to host a men's game but overall a good selection of stadiums. I just feel it would have been just reward for the work put into the club over the past few years. I'm all for matches in Cumbria but find it strange they've chosen to stage 3 matches at a ground which has yet to be built. Not a dig at Workington, passionate fans plus they have a beach which might've swung it! Maybe York are on a 'waiting list' if the stadium at Workington doesn't happen in time.

But just like the last few years I'm sure the staff at York will make the most of what they have been awarded - 2 women's semi finals which will be sellouts as we showcase the new stadium and our wonderful city to the world.

I'd argue that the two women's semi-finals are *potentially* higher profile events than the group games that say, Workington, Doncaster, Leigh etc. will host. The BBC and sports governing bodies have really been pushing women's sport in recent years and I'd expect an England team in a home world cup semi-final in 2021 to get a decent slab of attention, particularly if the WC organisers do a decent job.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Taken from NRL.com

Australia are expected to open their defence of the Paul Barrie`re Trophy at the Emerald Headingley Stadium and are likely to play another pool match at Middlesbrough FC's 34,000 seat Riverside Stadium.

Assuming all goes to plan for the Kangaroos, they would be aiming to play in the semi-final at Elland Road and final at Old Trafford. New Zealand also likely to play at Emerald Headingley, as will Leigh Sports Village, Club Doncaster and Workington Community Stadium.

The opening match of the men's tournament will be played at St James Park and feature England, who will also play pool matches at Sheffield FC's Bramall Lane and University of Bolton Stadium.

 

[Rupert Prince]

4 hours ago, RP London said:

thanks for the reasoned response.. always a pleasure debating with you Donald.

Why should I waste more time when Exiled Wiganer  listed a suitable response.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

5 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

That is a leap, though, from my point.

1) it isn’t legendary, it is a fact. Look it up; 

2) as I am sure you will have experienced first hand, you will find wiganers in numbers at international games wherever they are played;

3) if you have somewhere which you rely on when you are desperate to sell as many tickets as possible, as the RFL have done from time immemorial with Wigan, it is short sighted and stupid not to find a way to show a game at the DW; 

4) with a finite marketing budget and having to try and sell tickets at hard sell places, Wigan was a guaranteed low investment high reward venue; plus 

5) if the game is interested in growing the game and deepening its grass roots, then there is far more to be gained from having Wigan as a host and focal point for its schools and juniors, rather than playing in Bolton, a place as likely to produce players as the moon. 

How many where you getting when you went into Division 2, c.4000 was your lowest home gate IIRC, compare that to Hull's almost 10k average when they were in Div2 on the up, Wigan were also winning mot of the games in your season and rebuilding so the comparison is fair.

2016 when you played us at the CC final, you were massively outnumbered by Hull fans, as you were in 2013. Yeah you travel in decent numbers but it isn't 'legendary', it's about what you would expect for the most successful club in RL history, one that produces time and time again,

How can you know that it was a "guaranteed 'low investment/high reward' venue, compared to what? What if other locations actually provided a better return, how do you know how much any of the other locations bids offered copared to Wigan's, you have some numbers to prove your point or are you just guessing?

I disagree with your last point also, we're not going to grow the game more in a saturated area that has had the most successful team over a hundred years, it's not branched outwards has it further than were it's laid for that very, very long period of time. So, time to change things around and try something different right?

it's not like you've got far for your 'legendary' fans to travel is it!

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

How many where you getting when you went into Division 2, c.4000 was your lowest home gate IIRC, compare that to Hull's almost 10k average when they were in Div2 on the up, Wigan were also winning mot of the games in your season and rebuilding so the comparison is fair.

Have you any links to back up your assertion that Hull FC had an average of almost 10k in division 2. Sounds like absolute rubbish.

[Padge]

2 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

How many where you getting when you went into Division 2, c.4000 was your lowest home gate IIRC, compare that to Hull's almost 10k average when they were in Div2 on the up, Wigan were also winning mot of the games in your season and rebuilding so the comparison is fair.

2016 when you played us at the CC final, you were massively outnumbered by Hull fans, as you were in 2013. Yeah you travel in decent numbers but it isn't 'legendary', it's about what you would expect for the most successful club in RL history, one that produces time and time again,

How can you know that it was a "guaranteed 'low investment/high reward' venue, compared to what? What if other locations actually provided a better return, how do you know how much any of the other locations bids offered copared to Wigan's, you have some numbers to prove your point or are you just guessing?

I disagree with your last point also, we're not going to grow the game more in a saturated area that has had the most successful team over a hundred years, it's not branched outwards has it further than were it's laid for that very, very long period of time. So, time to change things around and try something different right?

it's not like you've got far for your 'legendary' fans to travel is it!

Wigan in the second division had an average of 4,693 10th in the entire league, not great for Wigan but in the context of being in the second division, would have been 9th in the first. That season the first division average was only 5,110 and second division 2005. 

You mentioned Hull, which season are you talking about?  In 78/79 in division 2, Hulls promotion season, they didn't get 10k, they got 6,853.

 

[yanto]

4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 New Zealand at Workington Community Stadium.

 

 

Look forward to the Kiwis coming to West Cumbria again.

Wonder how they will react to this fixture (if its true) considering the winging they did when they last visitied Workington 

[Pyjamarama]

As a Wigan fan myself, I'm obviously disappointed we didn't get a game. However, by the very nature of the venue bidding process (40 bids for 17 slots) there was always going to be someone disappointed. There was never ever going to be a selection of venues that suited everyone. By its very nature, the bidding process means that no slot was 'reserved' for one particular town/city. I don't know what the criteria for a successful bid entailed, but I'm presuming it wasn't based on just making the stadium available, providing a few stewards, and putting a bar on - but involved the council  & clubs plans for promoting the event, details of how they are to maximise the impact of the RLWC on the local community etc.... So it could be that our (Wigans) bid just wasn't very good compared to the successful bids. 
To other Pies, have a moan if you must. When that's done & out of your system -  leave it, crack on and get behind the tournament. The world of RL doesn't revolve round us. The game & this tournament is far far more important than one club or individual gripes. 
 

[Number 16]

1 hour ago, Pyjamarama said:

As a Wigan fan myself, I'm obviously disappointed we didn't get a game. However, by the very nature of the venue bidding process (40 bids for 17 slots) there was always going to be someone disappointed. There was never ever going to be a selection of venues that suited everyone. By its very nature, the bidding process means that no slot was 'reserved' for one particular town/city. I don't know what the criteria for a successful bid entailed, but I'm presuming it wasn't based on just making the stadium available, providing a few stewards, and putting a bar on - but involved the council  & clubs plans for promoting the event, details of how they are to maximise the impact of the RLWC on the local community etc.... So it could be that our (Wigans) bid just wasn't very good compared to the successful bids. 
To other Pies, have a moan if you must. When that's done & out of your system -  leave it, crack on and get behind the tournament. The world of RL doesn't revolve round us. The game & this tournament is far far more important than one club or individual gripes. 
 

That is one top post!

[Copa]

15 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Rather than quote a long quote, I do not know what was in the bids, so perhaps Bolton have guaranteed a huge amount of additional income, regardless of relative crowd figures. 

 

So I was wondering what the fuss is about so I looked at a map to see where Bolton is relative to Wigan. From my perspective it’s practically next door.

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Copa said:

So I was wondering what the fuss is about so I looked at a map to see where Bolton is relative to Wigan. From my perspective it’s practically next door.

From anybody's.

[Shaggy]

10 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Taken from NRL.com

Australia are expected to open their defence of the Paul Barrie`re Trophy at the Emerald Headingley Stadium and are likely to play another pool match at Middlesbrough FC's 34,000 seat Riverside Stadium.

Assuming all goes to plan for the Kangaroos, they would be aiming to play in the semi-final at Elland Road and final at Old Trafford. New Zealand also likely to play at Emerald Headingley, as will Leigh Sports Village, Club Doncaster and Workington Community Stadium.

The opening match of the men's tournament will be played at St James Park and feature England, who will also play pool matches at Sheffield FC's Bramall Lane and University of Bolton Stadium.

 

Sub editors are on holiday, I see. I don't know if Sheffield FC would be happy about moving to Bramall Lane or not. It's a big stadium for their level.

Apart from that pedantry this has pretty much guaranteed one more ticket sold. A shortish drive down the A19 to see the Kangaroos is worth a journey. There's a pub on the edge of Middlesbrough owned by a Leeds Rhinos season ticket holder. He'll be happy, too.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I don't know if Sheffield FC would be happy about moving to Bramall Lane or not. It's a big stadium for their level.

They don't want to slum it with these newcomers.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Right, payday today, saving up for tickets starts now! I figure if I put away £20 a month for 2 years until tickets go on sale, I'll have about £500 in the ticket fund. So 10 games in £50 seats or 20 in £25 seats?? We need to know the fixtures!! 

[Pyjamarama]

41 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Right, payday today, saving up for tickets starts now! I figure if I put away £20 a month for 2 years until tickets go on sale, I'll have about £500 in the ticket fund. So 10 games in £50 seats or 20 in £25 seats?? We need to know the fixtures!! 

I'd definitely go with the 20 game option. The more games to see the better!

[Exiled Wiganer]

12 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

How many where you getting when you went into Division 2, c.4000 was your lowest home gate IIRC, compare that to Hull's almost 10k average when they were in Div2 on the up, Wigan were also winning mot of the games in your season and rebuilding so the comparison is fair.

2016 when you played us at the CC final, you were massively outnumbered by Hull fans, as you were in 2013. Yeah you travel in decent numbers but it isn't 'legendary', it's about what you would expect for the most successful club in RL history, one that produces time and time again,

How can you know that it was a "guaranteed 'low investment/high reward' venue, compared to what? What if other locations actually provided a better return, how do you know how much any of the other locations bids offered copared to Wigan's, you have some numbers to prove your point or are you just guessing?

I disagree with your last point also, we're not going to grow the game more in a saturated area that has had the most successful team over a hundred years, it's not branched outwards has it further than were it's laid for that very, very long period of time. So, time to change things around and try something different right?

it's not like you've got far for your 'legendary' fans to travel is it!

You missed my point entirely. Someone suggested that our support was “legendary”, implying that it was made up and over stated. Our support is not legendary because you can measure it. It is a fact,, not a legend. 

My point on low investment/high reward was based upon past experience - in series where the RFL had virtually no money to spend on advertising, Wigan has been the safest of safe bets. Again, look up the records. 

Then feel free to re-read what I wrote. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Copa said:

So I was wondering what the fuss is about so I looked at a map to see where Bolton is relative to Wigan. From my perspective it’s practically next door.

But it is a different place, and Wiganers feel an affinity for their own town. The fuss is not to do with ease of travel, rather whether there is any significance, civic pride, or benefit to the club or community in hosting a game. We could indeed play all the games in one stadium - perhaps Bolton - or not bother announcing venues at all beyond north west/north east/London on the basis that no one will have to travel far to get to any of these games if they live near them.

The announcement was about host towns, rather than the density of population in a region.

Of course from an Australian perspective, the distances are irrelevant for a World Cup match as the locals will travel the same distance in not attending matches which are local or further afield, 

[RP London]

13 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Why should I waste more time when Exiled Wiganer  listed a suitable response.

i was hoping yours made more sense than his as his was just saying "but we deserve it" which Wigan dont as the bid wasnt good enough.. but hey ho.

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

But it is a different place, and Wiganers feel an affinity for their own town. The fuss is not to do with ease of travel, rather whether there is any significance, civic pride, or benefit to the club or community in hosting a game. We could indeed play all the games in one stadium - perhaps Bolton - or not bother announcing venues at all beyond north west/north east/London on the basis that no one will have to travel far to get to any of these games if they live near them.

The announcement was about host towns, rather than the density of population in a region.

Of course from an Australian perspective, the distances are irrelevant for a World Cup match as the locals will travel the same distance in not attending matches which are local or further afield, 

to be fair the bit in bold is what makes RL so great in the UK but its also what potentially holds the sport back so much... its RL in a nutshell

[The Hallucinating Goose]

47 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

I'd definitely go with the 20 game option. The more games to see the better!

This is why we need to know the fixtures, so I know which days I need to be sick from work on!

[Exiled Wiganer]

36 minutes ago, RP London said:

i was hoping yours made more sense than his as his was just saying "but we deserve it" which Wigan dont as the bid wasnt good enough.. but hey ho.

I was hoping you could read and follow a line of reasoning, even if the end point differed from your own... but hey ho. 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I was hoping you could read and follow a line of reasoning, even if the end point differed from your own... but hey ho. 

I think there is some fair reasoning in your point, however we shouldn't over-egg the importance of Wigan as a town getting a game. As you point out, Wigan fans support the game in general at most major events, I have acknowledged that throughout this thread. And the fact that they have 12 games within 25 miles of the DW Stadium should more than meet the needs of the RL fan in Wigan. The games don't need to be at the DW to serve the Wigan public.

I accept the civic pride point, and that then has to be down to the Council/Stadium/Bid team for not putting a compelling enough bid together. 

[Dunbar]

I've followed this debate on Wigan with interest (as a Wigan lad).

The Coventry game is a bit of a red herring as the real debate is Wigan vs. Bolton hosting a game... similar stadiums very close to each with the only difference being that one is a town with a huge history in the sport and a name that is synonymous with Rugby League while the other just a few miles away is hardly associated with the sport at all.

I am pretty sure that all things being equal the RFL/World Cup organisers would want a game in an historic RL town such as Wigan as they have with St Helens, Leeds and Hull.

The selection of host towns/cities seems to have been a professionally run process with a fair degree of competition.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the Wigan bid must have been very poorly put together and presented.

I agree that Wigan is a proud RL town and would have loved to host a game or two and they should feel very let down by whoever put together that bid.