Disciplinary

[ELBOWSEYE]

Quite a few players picking up bans this week. 

Dudson grade E

Philbin D 2 matches

Smithies 1 match notice

BACHELOR HKR 1

Kane Evans hull fc 1

Sue HKR 2

Westerman cas 1

Vulikjapani hull fc 1

Seumanufagai leigh 1

Knowles referred to the committee with reference to cooper tackle. 

A few players from Warrington and wigan missing from fridays game. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by ELBOWSEYE

[DimmestStar]

[Fevrover]

30 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

No different to St.Helens then.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Fevrover
Misread it 😳

[Davo5]

22 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

No different to St.Helens then.

I did hear Saints tried & failed to appeal the Willie Isa ban last week.

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Leeds are appealing? Not me me, they aren't.

[johnh1]

Question is, are Saints going to appeal the Knowles one? 

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, johnh1 said:

Question is, are Saints going to appeal the Knowles one? 

Can they see what the decision is first. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

12 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Can they see what the decision is first. 

Hopefully they accept the decision, Warrington didn't like the Mcguire ban but accepted decision. 

[Chrispmartha]

Both Knowles snd Dudson get 5 games, Dudson is s lucky boy IMO

[Jughead]

Poor record and high grading, so you can see why five for Knowles. 

I know we went very heavy with bans last year (Gale, Pryce etc) but five feels light for Dudson’s. 

[Just Browny]

Incidentally which of the two offences (probably) finished a fellow professionals career? Dudson's punch was despicable and I said on here he should have his contract cancelled, but Johnstone will be playing in the next game.

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Poor record and high grading, so you can see why five for Knowles. 

I know we went very heavy with bans last year (Gale, Pryce etc) but five feels light for Dudson’s. 

Feels light for both. Will either of these stop players from what both players did. 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Can they see what the decision is first. 

How will they know they want to appeal if they don't know the decision?

[David Dockhouse Host]

Forwards Gil Dudson (Warrington Wolves) and Morgan Knowles (St.Helens RLFC) have both been suspended for five matches by tonight’s independent tribunals.

 

Dudson was referred to tribunal by the Match Review Panel on a Grade E charge of punching a Catalans Dragons opponent during Saturday’s Betfred Super League match in Perpignan. He is also fined £500.

 

The Match Review Panel had referred Knowles on a Grade D charge of dangerous contact with a Wigan Warriors player during the Good Friday derby at the DW Stadium. He too is fined £500.

 

An appeal by Leigh Leopards’ Ava Seumanufaga against a one match suspension, imposed for late contact with a Salford Red Devils opponent during Saturday’s game, was successful, the incident being downgraded from B to A and the one match suspension cancelled. He is fined £250.

[Chris22]

One of the more interesting points of the Knowles decision is that the severity of Mike Cooper's injury seems to have led to a far lengthier suspension. For examples, James Batchelor and Morgan Smithies were found guilty of the same offence and have received one match suspensions compared to Knowles' five matches.

I know that severity of injury has always been an aggravating factor but looks as though the RFL may be placing more weight on that this year, to the extent that the disciplinary panel have chosen to go beyond the recommended sanction in the sentencing guidelines.

Although, it is possible (if not likely) that Knowles' disgraceful disciplinary record over the last two years has added to the length of suspension too. 

There will be noise amongst our fans about other players getting fewer matches for the same offence, or Dudson getting the same for a deliberate assault on a player unable to defend himself. Whilst some of those points are valid, Knowles needs to take a good look at himself and his technique because it's costing his team.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Chris22

[bobbruce]

46 minutes ago, Griff said:

How will they know they want to appeal if they don't know the decision?

That was sort of the point. 

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

One of the more interesting points of the Knowles decision is that the severity of Mike Cooper's injury seems to have led to a far lengthier suspension. For examples, James Batchelor and Morgan Smithies were found guilty of identical tackles and have received one match suspensions compared to Knowles' five matches.

I know that severity of injury has always been an aggravating factor but looks as though the RFL may be placing more weight on that this year, to the extent that the disciplinary panel have chosen to go beyond the recommended sanction in the sentencing guidelines.

Although, it is possible (if not likely) that Knowles' disgraceful disciplinary record over the last two years has added to the length of suspension too. 

There will be noise amongst our fans about other players getting fewer matches for the same offence, or Dudson getting the same for a deliberate assault on a player unable to defend himself. Whilst some of those points are valid, Knowles needs to take a good look at himself and his technique because it's costing his team.

Giving a more severe ban dependant on injury is a classic case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[Jughead]

I’ve no idea what Batchelor or Smithies records are like but I think it’s something like 9 suspensions (ten now) in eighteen months for Knowles. I would hope that this would be more of a contributing factor in the length of the ban instead of severity of injury to an opponent. 

That brings me on to my next point. Dudson has a headbutt charge and a punching charge in the past two seasons, which makes the five games for attacking someone on the ground very light. 

[Dunbar]

In my opinion, you cannot base the length of a ban on the seriousness of the injury caused.

But you can base it on the likelihood to cause injury.

All hip drop tackles have the potential to cause serious injury and should be punished the same... irrespective of whether a player has the very good fortune to escape injury.

[Josef K]

I’m glad Knowles got five games, he has become a liability. Will he learn from it ?, probably not which seems to be the case for quite a few of the Saints players.
He’ll have to change his tackle technique and why he’s at it he can also learn how to keep hold of the ball when going over the line. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

I’ve no idea what Batchelor or Smithies records are like but I think it’s something like 9 suspensions (ten now) in eighteen months for Knowles. I would hope that this would be more of a contributing factor in the length of the ban instead of severity of injury to an opponent. 

That brings me on to my next point. Dudson has a headbutt charge and a punching charge in the past two seasons, which makes the five games for attacking someone on the ground very light. 

My gut feel is that 5 matches for these incidents is fine (they are pretty serious bans) , but there are questions about process that should be answered. 

Dudson was charged with E which has 4-6. It is surprising that with his record he hasn't received the maximum. I'm not sure what could be used as a mitigant in that incident. 

I'm not sure Knowles or anyone associated with him can have any complaints though. 5 matches for a tackle that rules a player out for 12m and is his 9th charge in 10 months feels about right. 

 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

That was sort of the point. 

Well then, yes, of course they are given a decision and then he - not Saints - has the option to appeal.

[The Phantom Horseman]

Toulouse and Laurent Belmas clearly not happy about his ban for an alleged attack to Tom Holmes' testicular area.

Toulouse have released a statement saying roughly (my translation) "In spite of a video which doesn't show any movement/gesture, the discplinary panel of the RFL has classed the alleged action as "Grade F" and the Operational tribunal has sentenced the Toulouse prop to a suspension of 7 matches."

The video's here. Probably inconclusive I'd say, you can see Holmes (number 1) move that part of his body sharply away but you can't see the alleged action from belmas (number 8). Whether the touch judge saw anything I don't know. Probably similar to the Flanagan case where they will have listened to the evidence from both parties and made their decision accordingly.
 

 

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Toulouse and Laurent Belmas clearly not happy about his ban for an alleged attack to Tom Holmes' testicular area.

Toulouse have released a statement saying roughly (my translation) "In spite of a video which doesn't show any movement/gesture, the discplinary panel of the RFL has classed the alleged action as "Grade F" and the Operational tribunal has sentenced the Toulouse prop to a suspension of 7 matches."

The video's here. Probably inconclusive I'd say, you can see Holmes (number 1) move that part of his body sharply away but you can't see the alleged action from belmas (number 8). Whether the touch judge saw anything I don't know. Probably similar to the Flanagan case where they will have listened to the evidence from both parties and made their decision accordingly.
 

 

You should be careful Horseman, that's two youtube videos you've posted today from clubs that aren't your own.

Don't you realise that you are increasing the social media clicks for those clubs and potentially increasing their points in the IMG rankings. This could cost Featherstone promotion in coming years! 

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

You should be careful Horseman, that's two youtube videos you've posted today from clubs that aren't your own.

Don't you realise that you are increasing the social media clicks for those clubs and potentially increasing their points in the IMG rankings. This could cost Featherstone promotion in coming years! 

I 'd better pull that next planned thread about Bradford's comedy passive aggressive Twitter account in favour of repeated TikTok videos of Fev players dancing then!