Sat 22 July : Betfred RL Challenge Cup Semi Final : St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 14:30 BBC1

[hindle xiii]

I don't remember the tackle on Walmsley but I winced at the tackle on Paasi and immediately wondered if that tackle is ok these days.

There's a new wave of joint damaging tackles I'm yet to fully understand.

Still, Wigan play later so I'm sure I'll be well versed by the end of that game.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Charnley has been excellent this season makes one wonder why Powell let him go.

I always liked him at Wigan and could never understand why it went so badly for him at Warrington and why many of their fans couldn't wait to get rid. His form since then obviously shows that was a failure by Powell and an issue with the environment he had created.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Damien

[dkw]

5 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Charnley has been excellent this season makes one wonder why Powell let him go.

Shows the difference it makes when a players enjoying playing the game.

Last few seasons he looked like a player who didn't really want to be out there.

Edited July 23, 2023 by dkw

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I was going to make this point in my post.

That final between Huddersfield and Warrington was the first final in 22 years not to feature Leeds, Saints or Wigan. It felt very fresh.

Similar to how Hull breaking the 5-year monopoly of finals in 2000-2004 of the issue Big 4 felt fresh (AND actually winning). There's only been 1 other final featuring 2 of that Big 4 since.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily negative. It's just indicative of the size of the clubs. They're considered the Big 4 for a reason.

 

It's an observation, and a correct one. There's nothing wrong with being excited at the prospect of a fresh final featuring finalists that are both not one of the usual suspects. It's similar to how I felt about that 2009 final. Warrington have since gone on to feature in 10 finals since.

That is amazing.

It's also amazing that 1 of 4 teams have featured in every final for 36 years.

1 of 3 teams have featured in all but 3 finals in the same period.

That dominance is what would make a final of Hull KR and Leigh special in its own way. That's not negative.

 

(I still want a Leigh v Wigan final though )

Complaining about things being predictable/repetitive (which is ultimately what the point is) in a cup with loads of variety is absolutely negative. 

I mean is it really a massive surprise that the best clubs often make the finals? 

[Dave T]

Just now, Damien said:

I always liked him at Wigan and could never understand why it went so badly for him at Warrington and why many of their fans couldn't wait to get rid. His form since then obviously shows that was a failure by Powell and anissue with the environment he had created.

Charnley was still playing very well when he was released at Wire. He was our top try scorer. 

A lot of Wire fans on Twitter in particular are tools, the amount of times you read "sick of this club" type posts just because we lose a game is weird. They love a scapegoat and for some reason they wrapped Charnley in with Lineham. Charnley never gave less than 100% and did the hard yards even when he didn't score. 

There seemed to be a personal dislike of him that I never understood, I don't think it was just the Wigan links as we've had plenty of players with those. 

[JohnM]

10 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Wrong on the LUT guy Arabs they red and grey they only changed when GM buses took them over in 1977, I was the last apprentice in LUT in 1977. So a bus spotter but not correct.

Iirc, the 26 service was an express service that only stopped at selected stops. Again IIRC the blue Leigh buses on the route had an unusual upper deck configuration of wide bench seats (5 wide?) with a corridor along the side of the bus, plus they were not as tall as Salford and Manchester buses. As a secondary school kid, I used to try to get the 26 from Victoria Park Swinton to Broad Street Salford (between 1957 and 1962).

Oh, and yes, I only caught snatches of yesterday's game but despite all the urine extraction (a tradition, by the way) Leigh truly and unqualifiedly deserved the win. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by JohnM

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Complaining about things being predictable/repetitive (which is ultimately what the point is) in a cup with loads of variety is absolutely negative. 

I mean is it really a massive surprise that the best clubs often make the finals? 

A quick comparison to the FA Cup. 

Over the last 32 years, only once has their final not included one of their big 5, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool. 

It would be quite odd if the strong teams didn't make the finals tbh. 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

A reminder to Leigh supporters - unless you take at least 20000 supporters to the final the RFL will insist that you post a £500k bond if you want to take part next year.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Chronicler of Chiswick
Typo

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Iirc, the 26 service was an express service that only stopped at selected stops. Again IIRC the blue Leigh buses on the route had an unusual upper deck configuration of wide bench seats (5 wide?) with a corridor along the side of the bus, plus they were not as tall as Salford and Manchester buses. As a secondary school kid, I used to try to get the 26 from Victoria Park Swinton to Broad Street Salford (between 1957 and 1962).

Oh, and yes, I only caught snatches of yesterday's game but despite all the urine extraction (a tradition, by the way) Leigh truly and unqualifiedly deserved the win. 

The Leigh deckers were low bridge buses hence the upper deck bench seats with a lower walkway, I am not a spotter but worked in LUT, Leigh, Wigan and quite a few others .

[BadlyOverdrawnBoy]

10 minutes ago, JohnM said:

As a secondary school kid, I used to try to get the 26 from Victoria Park Swinton to Broad Street Salford (between 1957 and 1962)

De la Salle?

[hindle xiii]

Just to keep it on topic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Leopard

 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

1 minute ago, hindle xiii said:

Just to keep it on topic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Leopard

 

Ooooo Bus Porn now your talking

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

28 minutes ago, Damien said:

I always liked him at Wigan and could never understand why it went so badly for him at Warrington and why many of their fans couldn't wait to get rid. His form since then obviously shows that was a failure by Powell and an issue with the environment he had created.

Also it was interesting to hear from him on the Out of Our league podcast recently......because he looks like a  yob with his tattoos etc I was surprised how introspective and humble he was

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A quick comparison to the FA Cup. 

Over the last 32 years, only once has their final not included one of their big 5, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool. 

It would be quite odd if the strong teams didn't make the finals tbh. 

Agreed it's not surprising but it's also not the best model in an ideal world 

The ideal is as much of a mix and unpredictability as possible 

How we get that I am not sure. Salary cap obvs isn't making it happen 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Agreed it's not surprising but it's also not the best model in an ideal world 

The ideal is as much of a mix and unpredictability as possible 

How we get that I am not sure. Salary cap obvs isn't making it happen 

But there is unpredictability. During this 36 year period that is being mentioned, we have had few repeated finals. It is unpredictable who is going to meet in the final and who is going to win. 

I mean, Leigh have just beaten Saints in the semi final. It seems an odd time to bring up predictability. 

[GUBRATS]

For the ten minutes after Leigh took the lead some of the Saints tackling was appalling , swinging arms , grabs to the head , shoulder charges , putting the head into our players on the floor , Saints discipline cost them the game , they ' lost it ' because things weren't going for them , simple as 

Edited July 23, 2023 by GUBRATS

[Padge]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But there is unpredictability. During this 36 year period that is being mentioned, we have had few repeated finals. It is unpredictable who is going to meet in the final and who is going to win. 

I mean, Leigh have just beaten Saints in the semi final. It seems an odd time to bring up predictability. 

If sport was as predictable as some make out there would be no bookies, why would people bother to put money on anyone but the favourite.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Complaining about things being predictable/repetitive (which is ultimately what the point is) in a cup with loads of variety is absolutely negative. 

I mean is it really a massive surprise that the best clubs often make the finals? 

I'm not complaining. It's just an observation. I want Wigan in the final.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being excited about the prospect of both finalists being fresh.

The best teams tend to get to finals. But the fact the same teams have been the best teams for so long is the issue and what makes a final without them so much more special.

Complaining about people pointing this out and being happy at the potential breaking of the duck is negative too.

 

[Padge]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

For the ten minutes after Leigh took the lead some of the Saints tackling was appalling , swinging arms , grabs to the head , putting the head into our players on the floor , Saints discipline cost them the game , they ' lost it ' because things weren't going for them , simple as 

Interesting, I said yesterday in the pub that Saints had lost the plot at that point, it seemed they were affronted by the cheek of Leigh and they had to be punished. It was a collective Wellens tantrum, surprised the entire team didn't start flapping their arms.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Padge said:

If sport was as predictable as some make out there would be no bookies, why would people bother to put money on anyone but the favourite.

I was going to make the point, if somebody could show me a person who predicted a Leigh v Wigan/Hull KR Cup Final in 2023, I could show them a liar. 

Similarly if you asked people to put a bet on last year, try wouldn't have opted for a Wigan v Hudds final. And so on. 

[LeytherRob]

Well after checking the news this morning it wasn't a dream and we are going to Wembley. Unbelievable performance and reaching a final was something I'd written off seeing in my lifetime sometime between 2018 and 2021. This is a special group of players and has to be right in the conversation of the best Leigh teams ever.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm not complaining. It's just an observation. I want Wigan in the final.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being excited about the prospect of both finalists being fresh.

The best teams tend to get to finals. But the fact the same teams have been the best teams for so long is the issue and what makes a final without them so much more special.

Complaining about people pointing this out and being happy at the potential breaking of the duck is negative too.

 

Personally I find it a weird thing to be excited about. I don't recall all the excitement about Portsmouth v Cardiff in the FA Cup which meant they broke this monopoly in football. 

It's a weird thing people focus on. 

I've never seen a Wigan v Leigh final nor a Leigh v KR final in my lifetime. How is predictability even a discussion against this backdrop? 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A quick comparison to the FA Cup. 

Over the last 32 years, only once has their final not included one of their big 5, Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool. 

It would be quite odd if the strong teams didn't make the finals tbh. 

It's not the fact that strong teams make finals. I think that's a disingenuous take.

It's the fact that the same teams have been said strong teams for a prolonged period of time, which reduces variety of 50% of the finalists.

The other 50% are very well mixed, which is great. We just need to get the other 50% mixed a bit more now and it'll show how the strength of the club game is improving.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But there is unpredictability. During this 36 year period that is being mentioned, we have had few repeated finals. It is unpredictable who is going to meet in the final and who is going to win. 

I mean, Leigh have just beaten Saints in the semi final. It seems an odd time to bring up predictability. 

Isn't it more the case that a team that doesn't normally make a final has reminded us how great variety is? 

I'm not saying saying there isn't 'some' variety....just saying it would be good if there was more ...that is the ideal 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

some of the Saints tackling was appalling , swinging arms , grabs to the head , shoulder charges , putting the head into our players on the floor , 

You mean Saints players played exactly as they always do

So great to see their grubby play exposed for what it is 

Wellens has taken it to a new level this year ....

Edited July 23, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco