Fri 3rd Mar: SL: St Helens v Leeds Rhinos KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Jughead]

34 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

 

Take a look at the two posts I've quoted from you.

In the first you say "We'll be top four comfortably", which is what I pulled you up for and suggested you were being arrogant.

The second post is after I quoted you and you changed it to "we'll probably be top four", which is fair enough, most will agree with you, and it's not being arrogant.

We will finish in the top four. You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone on here who thinks otherwise, even Wigan fans. A round three defeat to Leeds isn’t going to be seen as a moment to panic by Saints or the fans. Most Saints fans expected a loss or two in the early rounds given the Australia trip and Super League winners early season form  post-WCC, heightened because we went down there. 

[yipyee]

6 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Refs are more accountable than players, they get dropped all the time.

Are fans angry at Konrad for a late high tackle? Or angry at the ref for sending him off?

Yes this is SL but sadly the philosophy filters down the chain.

I wouldn't call it over excited, Its telling at young refs and they often don't return, it's a real issue. Abuse of refs based on a fan believing they made an error is somehow justified and tolerated, people quick to excuse the abuse, in ways it wouldn't happen with any other business. 

The fans do get on the back of players who are penalty machines, in the cold light of day I think fans will be upset with the saints players who rightfully got penalised.

That doesn't excuse the refs actions or lack of actions towards Leeds.

The abuse refs get is nothing compared to what our emergency services have to put up with and most of the time the emergency services are just doing their job well (unlike some officials ).

I watched one of your shows where you interviewed an old ref and how he left the game as he got a decision wrong in a Hull game and felt threatened this is obviously wrong. Theres a difference between accountability and abuse (threatening abuse as apose a pantomime villan).

I would like to see the refs at the touch screen after the game and to explain their decisions and held to account although I admit this will never happen.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 minute ago, yipyee said:

The fans do get on the back of players who are penalty machines, in the cold light of day I think fans will be upset with the saints players who rightfully got penalised.

That doesn't excuse the refs actions or lack of actions towards Leeds.

The abuse refs get is nothing compared to what our emergency services have to put up with and most of the time the emergency services are just doing their job well (unlike some officials ).

I watched one of your shows where you interviewed an old ref and how he left the game as he got a decision wrong in a Hull game and felt threatened this is obviously wrong. Theres a difference between accountability and abuse (threatening abuse as apose a pantomime villan).

I would like to see the refs at the touch screen after the game and to explain their decisions and held to account although I admit this will never happen.

Ill catch up tomorrow, tired now from having the same conversation across different platforms

[Chrispmartha]

Just watched the replay.

Those saints fans during the interviews at the end are embarrassing.

[SalfordSlim]

2 hours ago, yipyee said:

Don't mind when a better team wins just don't like being robbed.

 

You'll know how us Salford fans feel then after a couple of our more recent visits to the TWS.

I didn't see the full game tonight so what incidents robbed you of the win? The Hurrell challenge was fully deserving of at least a yellow so it's not that you can be complaining about. 

[Snowys Backside]

9 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

You'll know how us Salford fans feel then after a couple of our more recent visits to the TWS.

I didn't see the full game tonight so what incidents robbed you of the win? The Hurrell challenge was fully deserving of at least a yellow so it's not that you can be complaining about. 

Todays rules, yes, Hurrells was a yellow.

Wasnt too long ago us Rugby fans were creaming ourselves at Sonny Bill and Burgess shoulder charging and smashing everything in their path.

I do feel the game has gone soft.

[DACS]

The game had to get rid of shoulder charges to the head because they were a very visible sign that nobody cared about head injuries. Instead we had commentators creaming themselves over shots which clearly knocked opponents out. Its rubbish technique, completely out of control as to the point of impact and I'm glad its illegal. It also hasn't always been around - I started watching in the early 80s and the shoulder charge only became a big thing 20 odd years ago. 

Anyway, FWIW I thought that Hurrell's was a bad one and could have ended up a lot worse for Myler than it did. It was also late. The two yellows for hitting players after they have passed the ball were also good calls - that's a cowardly tackle, not tough, as both tacklers could have avoided heavy contact. While playmakers are fair game they should not have to worry about being belted after they kick/pass.

Walters to me looked like a shoulder and a penalty. But Welsby was an idiot for running in after the ref had very clearly warned both captains not to do it.

I thought Sts generally looked the better side for spells, but Leeds showed some good signs. Sangare and Walters in particular stood up to the big Sts forwards and helped create a platform. Far too often in the last few years Walmsley and co have just steamrollered the Leeds pack.

[Spidey]

Not a good luck - hopefully the ones involved feel suitably embarrassed now it’s the morning after

 

[FearTheVee]

Well done to Leeds.

saints have only ourselves to blame for poor discipline. I thought this one would be a very possible loss, we looked leggy and need the few days off the players have now been given after a hectic period.

The Walters decision was absolutely laughable and in the end it decided the game.

[gingerjon]

53 minutes ago, DACS said:

The game had to get rid of shoulder charges to the head because they were a very visible sign that nobody cared about head injuries.

They were also something of an anachronism in that everything else about tackle technique had been sorted so that we were focusing on rugby skills but there was one outlying rule that basically said, "Yes, but, if you want to just forget all that and do an uncontrolled assault on somebody then this is how it's done and you'll make the YouTube reel of some old bloke called 'LuvBiff13'."

[Just Browny]

Anyone been on RedVee yet? 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

7 hours ago, Jughead said:

Not at all. We have 27 rounds of drudgery and box ticking to get through as a sport, 

Blimey Jughead!......her I was thinking the SL season is something exciting and to be enjoyed!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

7 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

 

So they really mean they want consistency in their favour

I don't think anyone has ever disputed that one!

[Faithful1865]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

Don't mind when a better team wins just don't like being robbed.

 

Ah bless!!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, DACS said:

 

I thought Sts generally looked the better side for spells, but Leeds showed some good signs. Sangare and Walters in particular stood up to the big Sts forwards and helped create a platform. Far too often in the last few years Walmsley and co have just steamrollered the Leeds pack.

Walmsley looked like he was targeting Sangare and most of the time came off second best. Sangare got away at least 3 offloads whilst being tackled by him 

Once he gets fit Justin can be a top SL prop

Edited March 4, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[ELBOWSEYE]

8 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Frustrating one for Saints but probably a very entertaining one for a neutral.

A 24-12, we were on top and in control. We had chances to put the game away and didn't. That allowed Leeds a shot and they took it.

I'm not going to critical though after a pretty intense few weeks both physically and emotionally.

Never nice to lose in the last minute but we've been on the other side quite often. One to take on the chin and move on to next week.

A sensible comment, saints always were going to have a hangover after winning the WCC, they got the job done at cas who bombed chances, they could have won last night but leeds took their chance with some breaks. Saints will be back to normal next week but as with most clubs there are sections of fans who don't see the bigger picture. 

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Yesterdays 8 point teys were different incidents, one knees and one connection with the head, both would have been penalty's in normal play.

Percival's is debatable, it looked to me the defender was sliding away from Percival leading to hand slipping up, didn't look great but wouldnt be a penalty in normal play IMO. So no issues with no 8 pointer.

Shoulder charge incidents are totally different, one was debatable as there was no rotation, a players next to them and front on.

The other was high and late after the ball has gone, a definite red card no question.

Whilst even given the explanation I would have supported a saints penalty, I also accept the refs explanation. Welsby didn't have to run in, if he hasn't Saints would have just carried on and possibly won the game.

Nothing fishy, Saints poor discipline cost them far more than any potential error by the ref.

Lots of debate on social media, I hope when the red mist clears fans realise the ref was far better than they realised in the heat of the moment.

I think this is a good summary. Live, I thought Saints were hard done to, but after watching a couple of things back, I'm not so sure. 

It's also hard to blame anyone else when you've had three cards and missed a sitter of a kick. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Not a good luck - hopefully the ones involved feel suitably embarrassed now it’s the morning after

 

What a great look for our game and what were the stewards doing?

Given that this was televised and is already all over social media I think Saints may well have some questions to answer about their fans behaviour 

[Dunbar]

It really is amazing how the last 5 pages of just about every thread becomes about how the referee completely changed the game... usually with the inference that they gave a poor decision in order to be more visible and become the centre of attention. 

But it makes sense if you think about it.  I regularly make a big ####-up at work so my boss notices me more, it is excellent for career development I find.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dunbar

[bobbruce]

16 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Catalans v Hull pits two sides with 100% records. Wakefield v Huddersfield is a Derby between two sides desperate for a win. Cas v Wigan is one of the favourites playing away to a team which hasn't quite got going but could.

We will only know of course at 10pm and I can see why Sky picked this one. I see Saints giving Leeds a good hiding.

Think they probably picked the right game. 

[M j M]

Enjoy.

 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It really is amazing how the last 5 pages of just about every thread becomes about how the referee completely changed the game... usually with the inference that they gave a poor decision in order to be more visible and become the centre of attention. 

But it thinks makes sense if you think about it.  I regularly make a big ####-up at work so my boss notices me more, it is excellent for career development I find.

I don't think we need to be afraid of discussion and debate about decisions which will naturally bring some focus to refs. I think that's fine. Where we see claims of bias, attention-seeking, cheating, corruption and tbh, just out and out paranoia, it needs stamping on. 

The last two tv matches are good examples - there were close games with some tight decisions and controversy. It's all part of sport and part of the fun. But once people start complaining about generic things like the other team always being offside, or inventing things that happened off camera, it is clear some people have gone down a rabbit hole. 

An outcome of this obsession some have is what we saw with Rohan Smith last night. This board broadly stays right on that, although I think moderation has died away here and we are seeing more paranoia around refs. 

[FearTheVee]

49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's also hard to blame anyone else when you've had three cards and missed a sitter of a kick. 

This is it in a nutshell.

I always though bachelors injury could be an issue for us - he was the ever present last year amongst Sione and Sironen picking up constant cards and bans. Looks like not much has changed!

[Jughead]

8 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

 

Nothing fishy, Saints poor discipline cost them far more than any potential error by the ref.

 

I don’t think the two things are exclusive of each other. I think it’s fair to say that Leeds were the better side on the night, Saints were poor (quite possibly partly due to the fatigue of the WCC) and that the referee was poor and made some real inconsistent calls. To blame the outcome of the result entirely on the referee though, is too far. 

[doc]

Great game. Ref was right most of the time, maybe. 

Some dumb fans at the end, who can't accept that this is sport, and sometimes things don't go for you. 

I'll remind myself of this after the Sheffield Widnes game tomorrow!